Prof Sanjoy Bandopadhyay and Rajeswary Ganguly Banerjee
Date
27th September, 2016
Place
Ashoka Road, Alipore, Kolkata -700027
About the speaker
Rajeev Goenka is a noted connoisseur of Indian Classical Music and is a passionate music collector. He is the founder and protector of The Rajeev Goenka Music Academy at Dundlod, Jhunjhunu, Rajasthan. He is closely attached to Kolkata’s music scenario.
Well I will put it in this way that I came to know there was one, what do you call that, Discographer, His name wasMichaelKinnear,he was from Australia, now he is no more, he expired, so I came to know that he was researching on the mother shells which was the origin of those 78rpm shellac records. Now before shellac there were wire recordings, and those recordings were of two or two and half minutes. So he gave me his book on discography, I just tried to find out what happened to these records, so I accidentally entered a godown in the Dumdum factory.
Which year approximately?
1989, I asked my senior, what was that? Because I didn’t know what mother shell is? So I was explained, that these are all metal pieces, they call it stamper, now that stamper is hooked on some machine and hereby the engraving gets engraved in other side, it’s like photo printing kind of thing, and then that imprinted thing is put on shellac and that is how the 78rpm record is made, and it was God’s grace that he said that ’come I’ll show you a demonstration’.
Gauhar-Jan
So he prepared that whole thing, and he made one record, and after making that he played that record and that record was 1933 GauharJaan. So when I heard that I said “MrMaitra this is GauharJaan!” So MrMaitra looked at me and said Mr Goenka how do you know that this is GauharJaan? I said my brain and my ears are telling me. He said let me check. He went to his book, register-‘ja main tose nahin boloon’, and he said you are dam right. He said this whole godown is full of this, which means they have hundred thousand, one lakh stampers in that godown.
Amrita Bazar Patrika published a letter from Raja Sourindra Mohun Tagore on page 3 of their 09 January 1873 edition. Tagore wrote that he put his efforts to decipher the meaning of ‘Chhalikya Geet’ that occurred in the 147th chapter in the 21st sloka of Haribangsha. He did it under the requests of Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar and Rajendra lal Mitra.
Identified by Rajeswary Ganguly Banerjee, Project Fellow.
Data processed at SAP-DRS Lab, Department of Instrumental Music, Rabindra Bharati University.
Vidushi Purnima Sen is an exponent of Agra –Atruli gharana. She was the disciple of Vilayat Hussain Khan of Agra-Atrauli gharana. She has also learnt from Ata Hussain Khan and Sharafat Hussain Khan of the same gharana. She is considered as the heir of Agra-Atrauli gharana.
Tags
Hemen Sen, Sarod, 1982, India festival, Craft Council of West Bengal, London, Instruments, Sitar, Sarod, khol, Tabla, Pahkhawaj, Harmonium, Hirenbabu
Language
Bengali
Vidushi Purnima Sen speaks:
Metadata is generated by Suranjita Paul
Data processed at SAP-DRS Lab, Department of Instrumental Music, Rabindra Bharati University.
128/1A, Raja Ram Mohan Roy sarani (Amherst Street), Kolkata – 9
About the speaker
Mangla Prasad Sharma is a renowned manufacturer and exporter of Indian traditional musical instruments.
Tags
Hafiz Ali Khan, Amjad Ali Khan, Gwalior, Rampur, Sindhia Darwar, Madhav Rao Sindhia, Ali Akbar Khan, Rampur, Rewar Darwar, Annapurna Debi, Rabi Shankar, Chikari, Taraf, Drum size, Bridge, Sarangi, Tota, Taraf, Roda, Zil, Debar, Kharaj, Magaz, Chhauni, Posli, Mahjid, Chhati, Peda, Gaz, Parampara, Kanethi, Sarangi, Sarod, Sitar, Sundari, Sahanai, South India, Violin, Tarafdar Sitar, Veena, Surbahar, Sitar, Rabab, Sarod
Language
Bengali, Hindi, English
Mangla Prasad Sharma speaks:
A small video
Another small video
The old musical texts refer to the measurement of musical instruments and define the connection between the body of the musicians and the musical instruments. It is nice to observe the pride of Mr. Mangla Prasad Sharma as a possessor of the ancient wisdom and knowledge. — Editor
Hafiz Ali Khan’s father Amjad Ali Khan, along with his brothers originally belonged to Gwalior. But they came to live in Rampur, when according to the Rajas of Rampur’s wishes, they moved to the Sindhia Darwar, which was then under Madhav Rao Sindhia. And Alauddin Khan was at the Rimpur state of Mewar under the Rampur Gharana. This Gharana was created by Ali Akbar Khan. Annapurna Ji, the wife of Ravi Shankar, also belonged to this place. Ali Akbar used to play his Sarod in eleven or twelve inches drum. But they used to play in nine inch drum. There are six ears in this type of instrument, but they have eight ears in Ali Akbar’s Gharana. There are two chikaris of 10 in each, while they have eight chikaris. Both Gharanas have fifteen. To measure these, one needs a plate size of eighteen inches. The neck and drum sizes hugely differ. But if we come to the main strings, there are four strings in each. One has teo chikaris and the other has two chikaris, accompanied by two Dhars.
There are three types of Sarangis. First, we have the Tota, which is used to introduce the Sarangi to children for learning. On the Tota, there are seven Tarafs and three Rodas. The names of the Rodas are Zil, Debar and Kharaj. The Zil is the main string, the Debar is the one in the middle, which can go both ways. On the sides of the instrument, there are seven strings. The Tarafs lie on the front of it. The head of the instrument, also known as Magaz, contains eleven to thirteen tarafs. Do you understand? If I am to name the parts of the Sarangi from the top, there is first, the Magaz, then the Masjid, and the Chhati. From below, there is the Peda, and the Chhauni, which is made of leather. The strings on the side are known as Posli. There are nine Poslis on the side of the Sarangi and fifteen on the Chhati.
Tarafdar Sitar
Till today, no one had dared to alter the language of these terms in the instruments along with the measurements, no matter how far we have come. These terms have always remained intact, for example, Ped Kabala, Ped Dalil. Same applies for Sarangi- it retains its original structure. The hair is kept in braids, which resembles the braids of women’s hair. Today, people might not even know how to tie the hair of the Sarangi. The knob which is used to tune is still called the Kanethi. Similarly, the Sarod and the Sitar, the Sundari, the Sahnai has retained their original form. The Sahanai also exists in three types. The most popular and the largest one is the professional Sahanai, then there is the Surbahar and lastly there is the third type, which people from South India plays. The two types of Violin that we know of are the Professional and the Medium. Among Sitar also, we have the Plain Sitar and the Tarafdar Sitar. Today, what we get to learn is all wrong. We are taught Sarod after Rabab, but actually it should be the other way round. All the instruments used to arrive from the West to the East, and it still continues and there has been no significant change even after Indian independence.
Dr. Suranjita Paul: Sharma Ji, please tell us whether your son or daughter were ever eager to be associated with this traditional profession?
Mangala Sharma Ji: See, if I as a guardian, am myself not confident in this profession, then how can I encourage my children to stick to the traditional profession? It is not possible for them to be in the same business because there is not enough earning in it. As a father, it is very difficult for me to afford a decent lifestyle, and in this situation, I cannot expect my children to be in this profession. They are young, and it is not the right thing to force them into it. As for myself, I have given them an opportunity to learn. My daughter has done her MPhil in Dhrupad from Rabindra Bharati University. She had also done her Masters from the same University. But what do you think she can do with that degree? The government of India has no provision for students who are educated in these lines! In Bengal, no school or college teaches these things where people like my daughter can teach. Where will they go? I don’t know why they have kept a department in Music if there are no job opportunities after getting the degree. The music departments of Biswa Bharati University at Shantiniketan or that of Rabindra Bharati University should be closed down. According to me, they are spending a lot of money on these departments unnecessarily, because the students cannot implement this knowledge anywhere in their future. One sits for his/her examination from Rabindra Bharati University or Biswa Bharati University with a lot of hope, but when it the face the job market, they are left with nothing. What is the point of getting the degree if they cannot feed their own stomach and lead a decent life? If this is the scenario, then why should one invest in taking lessons on making musical instruments? We the makers of instruments are crippled by the government, and I am sure soon this whole tradition of musical instrument making will become a heritage. There is no hope for the future generation to learn from it. After a few years, people will only know of us makers in books. It is so hard to find measurements of musical instruments we make and if there is no adequate income, then why will anyone be encouraged to embrace the profession? In ancient times, people who used to make musical instruments used to get a lot of facilities and thus they were happy in their profession, which resulted in brilliant instruments being made. Now we only enjoy music, but we don’t pay attention to the details of the profession.
Dr. Suranjita Paul: Sir, I think the new generation is not so eager to learn…
Mangla Prasad Sharma: If the government has provision, then one can have ways, without which, why will anyone want to be in this profession?
TRANSLATION: ANKANA DAS
Data processed at SAP-DRS Lab, Department of Instrumental Music, Rabindra Bharati University.
128/1A, Raja Ram Mohan Roy Sarani (Amherst Street), Kolkata – 700009
About the speaker
Mangla Prasad Sharma is a renowned manufacturer and exporter of Indian traditional musical instruments.
Tags
Heritage, Instrument, Demand, supply, Delhi, 2014, Work shop, Sangeet Natak Academy
Language
Bengali, Hindi, English
Mangla Prasad Sharma speaks:
Verbatim:
Dr. Suranjita Paul: Now your business is growing and is changing with time… Please tell us a few words about it…
Mangla Prasad Sharma: Because everything is on the verge of being known as heritage, we the musical instrument makers are also going to be heritage very soon. We are destroying our selves by destroying our own culture. Nobody these days come to learn to how to make musical instruments. If demand for these instruments in the market is not there, then we shouldn’t expect there to exist a supply, right? How can we make instruments if we are not getting enough income? I must say that India is losing in this regard, and not I as an instrument maker. I had been very verbal about it at Delhi to, when in an interview in 2014, I was asked to speak about my profession. It was at a workshop conducted by the Sangeet Natak Academy. Now you can see me making these musical instruments, but I am very sure that in a few years, people will read about it in books and only get to see it in photographs. Coming generations does not want to engage in this profession because there is no opportunity to flourish. It is a great tragedy for us that we cannot impart this knowledge about the making of these instruments to the young, and I think that we are very helpless in this regard. The government offers no help for us, though we can see them spending so much money, in lakhs and crores for music colleges, for the PSD, etc. But when it comes to the musical instrument makers, we are left with nothing. The Central Government or the State Government, both have proven to be highly inefficient in providing us with any sort of support. The Sangeet Natak Academy at Delhi had given me the opportunity to attend the workshop there. I was very happy to attend it, and I am very obliged to the Sangeet Natak Academy for this. In today’s world, no one has time to play these instruments, thus the fact that the Sangeet Natak Academy had called me for the workshop is itself a great thing for me. What I feel is, today, foreigners are more interested in Indian musical instruments than Indians themselves are, maybe because they get the opportunity to play these.
Translation: Ankana Das
Data processed at SAP-DRS Lab, Department of Instrumental Music, Rabindra Bharati University.
Amir Khan’s student was there, Viswajit Chakraborty, who used to come, but he is dead now.
When did he used to come?
He is dead now, but he used to come to me and I have worked for him. Sandhya Mukherjee’s guru, Jamini Ganguli, Ram Kumar Chattopadhyay, all used to come to me. Among the old people, I have had with me Bade Gulam Ali Khan. Also, Munawar Ali Khan used to come. His son, Raza Ali Khan comes to me even in present day. There is also Buddhadev Dasgupta, who I remember comes to me. Among older generations, there is no such artist who hasn’t come to me.
I have been repairing musical instruments for Akashbani since 1972. It was not a big thing for me to meet with renowned artists. Artists who used the Surbahar, Sitar, Sarod, all come to me and I try my best to satisfy them with my work. After all, if they are not satisfied with my work, they won’t employ me. And in the world of music, the one most important thing is blood relations. I have inherited the traditional profession of our family from my forefathers; otherwise it would have been very difficult.
In Kolkata, you are the only one who can make the Rudrabina, and we know there is no one other than you… Do Indian Rudrabina players still come to you?
In Calcutta, I know Rudrabina player Asit Kumar Bannerjee. At Udaypur, there is Raj Shekhar Vyas Ji. At Mumbai there is Bahauddin Dagar, son of Ziauddin Dagar, who plays the Rudrabina. There is also Subir Mishra, who is an IAS officer.
I think we have had him with us today…
No, today we have here Pandit Gopal Chandra Paul with us. I also remember Aminuddin Dagar, who used to come to me. Just a few days ago I worked for Zia Fariuddin Dagar. All the people from the Dagar family come to me. In the past, I have also worked for Biswa Bharati University at Shantiniketan, Rabindra Bharati University, Benaras Hindu University, and Delhi University.
Is the technique behind the making of the Rudrabina very different?
Rudrabina is a very different thing.
I mean, the Rudrabina that the Dagars play, the ones you have made, is it different in its measurement or is it same as other Rudrabinas?
Generally it is just the same. Just one tax has increased. Earlier there was present seven, but Ziauddin Dagar changed it to eight. Ziauddin dagar was the father of Ziauddin Mohiuddin Dagar, whose son was Bauddin Dagar. They are all traditional people from Jaipur, Rajasthan. And these are the people who created Dhrupad from their Gharana. In the past, I had worked for Ustad Asad Ali Khan, who used to live in Delhi. He was a Rudrabina player as well.
Carsten Wicke
Carsten, who now lives in Tollygaunge is also making himself known now. Almost twenty years ago I gave him his Rudrabina. He took his lessons from Asad Ali Khan. Now he sells recorded CDs of his own music. Twenty years ago he came to me with his Rudrabina in a very bad condition. I had repaired it for him and sent him to Asad Ali Khan for his lessons. Asad Ali Khan also used to come to me. He used to sit in this very spot. If our artists from India get opportunities to travel to foreign countries, it is my greatest pleasure.
